The purgatory update

Hey look something controversial! Time to post a disclaimer because people don’t know how to deal with stuff!:
What I am going to talk about is in no way shape or form targeted or directed to be harmful to an individual or group. This topic is meant to be a critique of what in my opinion is wrong with the purgatory update, and my disappointment that these opinions haven’t been changed even after the official release of the update.

Now. Before I criticise everything about this update, let’s look at what munchymc got right with this update.

  1. The ideas themselves
    The ideas of the update as a concept is absolutely phenomenal, I commend everyone who came up with this update, and not just doing the planned December 2021 update of just adding more trolls. What difference time and effort makes.

  2. The schematics of the update.
    The sheer development and layout of the update is once again top notch. How the developers coded such a magnificent update in such a small time span especially considering the other commitments they have to do, as well as the other planned and in motion updates. Also, @Quorafied did a pretty damn good job on the spawn, so definitely credit where credit is due.

Now, time to look at the bad stuff.

  1. Allowing hacked clients may have been a cool concept, but it’s a terrible idea in practice.
    Firstly, I’d like to go over how this was announced. It’s like they wanted to say “hacking is allowed” without directly saying it, so instead they introduced a double negative into the sentence. Instead of encouraging munchy’s values, it just makes the announcement seem weak. Not a good start.

Secondly, let’s go over the usual hacked client shenanigans. If someone says “Oh I accidentally logged onto another game mode with my hacks on now I’m banned please it was a mistake!” There is no discernible way to determine someone who was malicious or non-malicious, and this wouldn’t be a problem if say people wanted to go on purgatory once, test out their hacked client and then log off. But the more you log onto purgatory, the more you risk not paying attention and accidentally joining another gamemode and getting banned. And don’t you dare tell me for a second that the stupid warning you get while your playing purgatory is enough to deter people. Unless people have the impossible mindset to always be conscious of using a hacked client, which is quite frankly impossible for everyone, especially people at a young age and people with mental disorders.

Thirdly, if you wish to play adventure mode, you are deliberately being put at a disadvantage if you do not possess or wish to get a hacked client. This is the problem with allowing hacked clients in the first place. They are called “unfair advantages” even by munchy for a reason. If you possess the base game or a non-cheating client such as lunar, how on earth do you plan to defeat someone with a fully functional hacked client at their disposal. This issue has been solved with other gamemodes, but unfortunately not purgatory. Everyone is NOT on an equal playing field when playing purgatory. I hear you ask, “What’s the problem? It’s meant to be unfair!” Well, let me introduce you to issue number 4.

Fourthly, By incentivising hacked clients, munchymc is DIRECTLY risking player’s computers being susceptible to computer viruses, data leaks, ect. Seriously how is this not the first issue brought up when this idea was even being drafted LET ALONE FINALISED? I’ll get into the staff team’s response to these obvious faults with enabling hacked clients later in this post, but let’s move onto the final reason enabling hacked clients is a bad idea.

Finally, how on earth do you plan to enforce people doing quests on purgatory to get unbanned whilst not hacking? Like the staff team’s response, I’ll get into something to fix this, because there’s no use in me complaining without giving solutions to fix these issues. But right now, let’s move onto the second major point of why this update sucks doo doo.

  1. The bugs :bug:
    Here’s a 2nd disclaimer: I love every single person in the bug and idea team. Warlock could not have chosen more amazing and wonderful community members to be apart of the exclusive BIT club…
    But come on guys, this in business is known as a minimum viable product (MVP/Prototype) not a polished and refined update. Does it need to be perfect? Absolutely not! You can have some bugs, it’s bound to happen at some point. But if the bugs are deliberately taking away from the game play experience you know you shouldn’t have a complete update or game. I’m going to reference Cyberfunk here, as it’s a great analogy for what I’m going to talk about. Cyberpunk just like the purgatory update, had little time to finish the game. So, the game was left as a monstrosity, released to the public as a fully finished and polished game worth its money, and forever tarnishing its image. This is the same vibes I’m getting from the purg update.

  2. The staff team’s response.
    In response to these issues, the staff team have effectively gone “Ok, but we don’t care.”. In my response to the response, YOU SHOULD CARE!!! What I do NOT want to see as a takeaway from this topic is just one of mediocrity, and moving on with your day. Fix the update. I asked 2 staff members about some of these issues (mostly with the hacking.). Their responses? Well one of them just left me on read which is always nice, the other one said: “It isn’t our responsibility for player’s actions … valid concern tho because most clients are ratted” … What? As “The official BadBoyHalo Minecraft Server” munchymc exposes a lot of its audience to young kids, and munchy leans into this with the only place sort of warned not for kids is prison, but they’d have to go deeper to find that. So munchymc, let me say that it is YOUR responsibility to take care of YOUR playerbase. You can’t just let kids not even old enough for digital consent roam freely downloading shady clients, otherwise it could be very possible that invoices and lawsuits will start piling in for damaging property that you are directly implicated in. This is also why I’m against bbh streaming prison map 9, because kids can get hurt!!!

Ok, well, if you’re so smart how do you solve this?

  1. Give a public list of safe to download hacked clients.
    I simply do not care if this goes against munchy’s values, this is the direct result of allowing hacked clients, so do me a favour and deal with it to avoid those law suits.

  2. Give a more secure system to not get players banned.
    Do not just give a broadcast every 5 or so minutes, that is not enough.

  3. Close the current update, and fix the bugs, rather than releasing the equivalent of day 1 cyberpunk.

  4. Give the staff team a way to give more visible criticism.
    I’m sure someone’s thought of these before, but seems like no one outside of relatively unknown community members have said anything. I also find it hilarious how the former staff members are the ones more critical and more cynical of the server than anyone else. Be more like them.

In short, I’m going to end on a bit of a sour note, but the main takeaway I’m trying to give everyone here is that munchy needs to do better, and be more effective than ever before. I may have spiraled a little bit during this post, and I may have been a bit too cynical, but we need to ask questions if we want to get answers, not just nudge people in the right direction and then not taking any notice.

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not disallowed*

@RealParasitz

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I see what you have said this post is for but based on some of the ways you’ve said things it kind of just looks like you only want to say how terrible you think it is

Like… I don’t understand why you would say this if you were trying to make this post in good taste


This doesn’t really make sense to me on how it makes the announcement seem weak, it literally just means hacking isn’t disallowed. Beef even said himself in a comment below

With your other point, I see how logging onto other servers with a client is an issue, but really, every single client has some sort of logo or list of cheats that you have on. I never saw how someone could just ignore this massive colorful logo on their screen and do /ww and then enable hacks and then accidentally get banned. It’s possible, but seems incredibly unlikely.
If you don’t want to have this as an issue, just… don’t cheat? It’s not putting you as a disadvantage unless you’re fighting someone that has one. In old purgatory cheats weren’t allowed and people were still able to play adventure and complete quests without them. This isn’t survival. In my opinion, if you’re not ready for purgatory’s challenges, don’t play pvp on it.

???

???
Because this isn’t required to play OR incentivized, it really isnt munchy’s responsibility to recommend people virus free cheats to use.

:shushing_face: There is a way

See it’s things like this that make me thing you’re just ranting to be negative because it is very clearly playable and I encountered literally 1 bug in the 2 hours that I played

Don’t cheat, play normally if you don’t want to be exposed to potentially dangerous clients, or do some research yourself (it isn’t difficult in my experience)
This is like saying “well some texture packs are downloaded from shady websites and might give you a virus!!” since again, not required to play, they’re just for a visual difference or for fun. If it was required to play then there surely would be a list.
Anything you download that isn’t base minecraft has a chance to be shady (though I understand cheats are infamous for it) so if you REALLY want a hacked client then I personally think that’s on you to find out.

Alright :+1:
Excuse any grammar mistakes if there are any my phone autocorrects things to random words very frequently

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helix is so correct as always but I don’t understand why this post is SO negative lol

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As helix already said this seems to just be an excuse to trash in the update, while constructive criticism is a good thing and is encouraged this is just a few paragraphs of rewording your disapproval of the update

Also I’m gonna end this by expressing my annoyance from this statement

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I don’t feel like this topic was necessary…

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I don’t really think this post is necessary? I don’t know it’s just kinda weird

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I’m clearly not understanding something, but if you don’t have the basic ability to play on the same level as someone else how is it not incentivised? The only way I’d imagine this update being made is if it presumes everyone who’s an unbanned player only becomes a troller.

Something isn’t right here

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Firstly, I want to put forward that I’m grateful you are willing to share some opinions with the public here. Without community members bringing light to issues we wouldn’t be able to invest time into finding solutions to fix the issues here. But I do want to address the negativity in the post. When presenting bugs and/or issues players have with the server, it’s best to present them in a way of constructive criticism. This includes providing the issue, following with why you are concerned, then concluding with some possible fixes. This post not only seems to lack the criteria for constructive criticism, but it also lacks the respect needed to come to an agreement on what issues could be presented.

Helix very diligently filled in a lot of information about this post already, so I don’t feel the need to get in detail about much of the update. But for future reference, posts like these will do you no good when trying to get a point across. If this new update has been too jarring on your purgatory experience I do recommend switching to our survival server for the concept of a SMP like feel, or you may choose a different server more fit to your likings. If you have any constructive criticism about our purgatory update, I would love to read through it and bring those points of interest to our bug and idea team. But, the negativity in your post takes away from anything constructive that could even be taken from this post.

In conclusion, take a few days to let the emotions out of your system. I think you led with your heart which shows passion for the server, which we love. After a few days, structure your issues as constructive criticism and then bring them back to the forums. I’d love to take a read at them then.

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:bug:

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I don’t see how this post is “unnecessary” as some others said and it also doesn’t seem “SO negative”

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ok, let’s talk about this.

Firstly, let me just say that the criticisms against this post are all very valid. This post was not very well written nor thought out. It came out of a place of frustration and was not meant to be in good faith, and I could have handled this a lot better.

What I won’t do however, is apologise for my opinionated statements that directly were not unintentionally or otherwise harmful to people. I did put a disclaimer that this was just me sharing my opinions, and others sharing their opinions in the replies of this topic. May I remind everyone that the forums is a place meant for civil discussion, and whilst I may have stepped over the line in the civility of this post, the aim was to create discussion surrounding this.

The other problem here is the fact that my opinion was unpopular within the community, and not many people shared my beliefs surrounding this topic. But I will say that the people here calling this topic unnecessary are literally trying to ride the bandwagon on the popular opinion. (Read my second point as to what the forums should be about!) If you call posts that disagree with your opinions and beliefs “irrelevant” or “unnecessary” you really need to reevaluate what you view the forums as.

I do agree with Twinkie’s point about constructive criticism being a better angle to approach subjects with differing opinions. This is something I should have done better.

Have a good day everyone, and why don’t I end on a happy note by saying morality is self determined, and because of that, any and all opinions that others may view as wrong isn’t the be all and end all. I.e, all opinions are valid ones.

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I do see some of your points, but the way you wrote your post just gives a really negative look and just makes is seem you just want to trash on the update. Like I said I do see where you’re coming from on some of your points, that doesn’t mean I agree with you though. Player’s actions are their responsibility, purgatory isn’t meant to be survival 2.0

Your topic just comes off as very negative which just shadows over anything you were trying to say, as the only thing anyone got from is, is that you hate everything about it. If you want people to really see what you have to say, try giving constructive criticism instead of hate, and pay attention to how your wording comes across, because it is really important for how your message will come across.

I’m with Helix on this one, but I also don’t think your intentions were to just make a hate post, but you need to pay attention on how it comes across to people reading it if you want it to be any way effective.

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completely agree

Munchy has always been like this. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them release a new gamemode or even update without it taking too long and having game-changing bugs.

This is a big issue, but not in the context that you were mentioning it. Yesterday I was temp-banned from purgatory (temp-bans are used to disallow people from earning unbans through purgatory) for xraying to diamonds. Yeah, that’s right. Cheating is “allowed”, but if you use it to complete quests, you get banned. There are so many issues with this. The first one being that this isn’t directly stated anywhere, so it’s on par with banning someone out of sheer spite. Secondly, how can you possibly differentiate between what’s used for fun and what’s used to complete quests? If someone were to fly hack, they could get banned for trying to complete the “travel 1mil blocks” quest. Same goes for using speed, bhop and teleport. If someone were to xray so they can get themselves max gear (like i was trying to do), they could get banned for trying to complete the “mine diamonds” quest. If someone used chest-esp to find a base with op loot or killed someone with op loot using hacks, and then used that op loot (legitimately) to complete quests, they could also be banned for this same reason. This is completely ridiculous. I even confronted the person that temp-banned me saying that 1) I wasn’t trying to complete a quest and 2) nowhere does it state that this is bannable. You know what they did? They left in the middle of our conversation because they felt like it.

I’m sorry to say it, but in all my years on munchy, the staff have basically never changed. There are a few hard-working members who try their best to keep the server a good place, but for the most part, they’re extremely unprofessional, demotivated and unwilling to help anyone unless it is for their personal gain (trying to not call them lazy so that you can tell it’s constructive criticism and not just a rant).

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