I joined midway through 2020 (as a “pandemic escapee” I moved my life to the digital realm during lockdown but stayed there when restrictions eased up :), so I have no experience with the last incarnation of this project. Could you share more for me and many others who probably also don’t really understand how this would work in practice?
Also, I know that Munchy staff are reading this, and I want to say that I do appreciate you :).
To name one example, during the last map, there was a tendency for players to constantly “flip” shops by buying them and then selling them for large amounts of gold. This created a situation where people would arrive with invis pots or dragon heads (which made it harder for others to approach the shop sign). If you had a lower-end computer that could achieve lower CPS, you frankly had no chance of ever getting a shop. In this map, that problem has been solved since every player can only have one mall shop.
At the time, while I was having issues trying to get a shop, I ranted about this in the main chat and got told to make a forum post. I couldn’t do that at the time, but I feel that perhaps my concerns (shared by some others) were taken into account anyway. I appreciate that.
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This seems like an awesome idea, I definitely get the part about not wanting to state your problems and such to a staff member.
What I am getting from this is that the council you are proposing would be sort of a middle party between the staff team and regular players? Is that right, or could you explain that a little more?
I also thought that the whole electing people onto the council was awesome, great to have democracy.
Maybe I skipped by it, but if this council does become a reality, there should definitely be changes in the council, say, every month or so, just having another election to see if the community still wants the same people in charge.
That being said, how exactly would these elections take place?
Just some thoughts, but the overall idea sounds great, and I would definitely participate.
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Are you able to be elected out of your own council? Are stsff members able to be elected?
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stsff members can’t join silly, as for staff members-
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According to Rhino we shouldn’t because:
Apparently we aren’t real players, we are scary and can be biased 
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Well, yes, every last human on the planet (including babies, yes!!) has biases that are influenced by their social environment :).
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Yeah I know… That was Rhino point not mine
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hey guys isn’t there an event team for survival
and a bug + idea team
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On the other hand, that means that any council members will ALSO come with their own set of biases, which has its own potential to cause issues.
Frankly, political philosophy is deeply interesting, but when I play Munchy… I just wanna play the game :D.
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I’m a little confused. How is this council any different from a helper (the already pre-disposed team created to be the bridge between staff and community members)?
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The whole aspect of the creation of a “council” would be to elect a group of representatives to provide ideas, concerns, and general topics of discussion accumulated from the MunchyMC Survival community. Having a community-elected group of individuals reduces the level of bias, requirements, and allows any and all Survival players to participate in a project that helps influence the future of Survival as a whole. The “council” can be diverse and flexible; having no requirements, mandatory admin influence, and can change members frequently to allow more perspectives to be heard. The idea is just a theory/incomplete thought process of applying accountability to groups with the ability to influence the experiences of Survival players, so the election process and other aspects to this project idea is undecided, as any suggestions and ideas are welcome to fully develop this project into something the community can proudly support and be satisfied with.
I do not see why Staff members cannot participate in the “council” as they are Survival players as well and can have innovative and influential ideas as long as it doesn’t consist of ONLY staff members; thus defeating the purpose.
There is no guarantee that staff members make decisions with bias, but there is also no guarantee decisions are made without bias. Having a flexible (constantly changing) group of individuals represent the community and discuss topics relating to issues and ideas surrounding the experiences of Survival players allows a vast level of diversity in terms of perspectives and general opinions.
Yes, you are correct on your statement regarding every individual on the planet holding a certain level of bias influenced by their social environment. However, initiating a group of individuals forces them to make compromises, co-operate on issues even when it doesn’t pertain to them, and view perspectives of another individuals experiences before finalizing a decision that affects the people around them.
Yes there is an event team for survival as well as a bug + idea team. However, having strict requirements (while mandatory to avoid conflicts of irresponsible individuals) including, but not limited to, experience, direct recognition, and Admin influence, limits the number of possible individuals who can participate in a group that discusses topics pertaining to the experiences of players on Survival. I believe there is a vast number of individuals on Survival that deserve more recognition, and the chance to participate and be a part of decisions that affect the future of the community on Survival.
Having a fixed group of individuals with given abilities over people around them will indeed increase the level of possible bias when enacting decisions that affect other individuals in the community. However, using a flexible and community-elected process to decide who represents the community gives the community control over who represents them and who they trust will make responsible decisions, and decreases the level of bias depending on how frequent the members of the “council” are redecided.
Also, having a community without developing a level of community oversight allows for probable chaos and conflicts, as intervention is necessary in keeping a community safe and enjoyable for the individuals involved. Discussions and ideas need to be founded within the community to establish security and a sustainable timeline for the people that are in the community. Wanting to limit yourself to having fun is okay, but if everyone had that mindset the community would be overrun by indecision, dissatisfaction, and chaotic confliction.
As stated above, the “council” allows for more flexibility, and gives advantages and opportunities to those in the community who don’t receive as much recognition, but still have relevant input and perspectives relating to their experiences. Allowing the community to establish a process that administers influence and representative abilities to those without the ability to become staff.
Also, I am very glad to hear that you’re interested in participating in a project like this. However, without further support, the project will be forced to close, unfortunately. An idea like this can be incomprehensible to members of the community; a large number of players choosing to stick with the traditional process of authoritative oversight because it’s easier and more “reliable”. A lot would also merely disagree based on the fact alone that they can’t understand a lot of the terminology I use. I, nor anyone else, can force anyone to support a project that is unprecedented and contradictory to the current regular routine. It would be sad to see this project be scrapped, but forcing ideology onto the community would defeat the purpose of the project itself. Although, it would be nice for the community to come together and choose innovative solutions to experiment with possibilities that could influence the future of MunchyMC Survival. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Yeah but are we able to elect you out of it
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I don’t see why a community shouldn’t Be allowed to veto a member for any justifiable reason as long as it wasn’t a decision accumulated by a general common understanding and agreement amongst the community so why not? Allowing members of the “council” to be redecided by the community allows for accountability and encourages individuals participating to be active, respectful, and responsible.
I also want to share that, when I first started playing, I had the impression that all of the staff members were paid professionals. This led me to have unrealistic expectations. Knowing that almost all staff are volunteers changes the situation rather a bit.
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As for how elections would take place for something like this, secret ballot would be the gold standard, either with simple majority voting (50 percent +1) or something like a two thirds majority.
The only way I see to make secret ballots possible in game would be to count the number of voting players in advance, put up that number of signs in a designated area, and allow each person to write down their choice on one sign. However, if that were to take place in an unclaimed area, it would be possible to tamper with preexisting signs as well. It would also be possible for any overseers to figure out who cast what vote.
Something like writeable books would not be feasible since each player can bring extra copies to vote multiple times :D.
(This comment is simply a mental exercise :D.)
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right but two things:
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that’s what Server Discussions / Feedback is for (kinda, would be cool for a more robust feedback section, but there is a Idea tag), and the discord is a great place for this kind of talk as well, as most staff that are active on the server are fairly active on the discord, notably Ibby and Beefy, both admins that are pretty darn active in the community discord
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wouldn’t limiting this council to ten players be sort of just recreating the bug and idea team? plenty of bug + idea team people are active on the server, and again, there’s even more active helpers+ that could easily send the message to an ideas channel where admins and devs see it
maybe i don’t understand this council completely (if so feel free to clarify) but it seems sorta unnecessary :/
(coupled with the fact that it was originally planned to be a dictatorship over Survival that planned to monopolize the whole server and make a bank to make people give it money… and i don’t think that’s an overstatement)
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Ouch.
I love the contributions you’re giving to provide theoretical clarity on how it could work. A ballot of sorts is definitely feasible despite contradicting conflicts that come with it.
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I understand there are methods of contributing ideas to administration. However, with there being so many places to do so, it can be somewhat cluttered as ideas contributed are usually based upon a single individual’s perspective rather than the community as a whole. To add to this, many players simply do not have access to Discord and would prefer not to use the forums. So if they wanted to contribute an idea, why should they be forced to participate in a 3rd party program to do so? Wouldn’t it be easier to have a direct group of representatives feature your ideas and concerns anonymously without having to leave the Minecraft Client? I understand there is a set traditional routine of using Discord and the MunchyMC Forums to discuss a vast level of topics, but I am hoping to make it more convenient to those who either don’t have access to these 3rd party programs or simply wish not to.
Also, the project WON’T be limiting the council to ten players, as the group can be flexible and frequently changed. The Bug & Idea team is reserved only for those who are applicable who have the opportunity to do so. Having a community elected “council” allows for the Survival community to be in charge of who they want to have to represent them without Admin interference.
From what I’m seeing, I assume you think the “Council” would be a replacement for the Bug & Idea team/Staff in general. However, this is simply an additional alternative that allows the community the opportunity to have control over who influences the experiences of players in the Survival Community.
(The initial intent of the Original Council of Ten was to take control of the Top 10 Spots on Baltop. There was no indication that any member(s) would apply to a form of dictatorship as no powers were given that holds them over other players around them. To add to this, the bank was not a method designed for people to give it money, but rather to incorporate innovative strategies that would overall boost the economy through investments, financial portfolio managers, project funding, loans, and personal savings accounts that would actually make the players money over time. The overall premise of the Original Council of Ten was to monopolize the server with influential individuals and would not hinder the experience of other players.)
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